Oh, we’re going there (xD)
Right around the time Kill la Kill came out, I told my circle of ani-watching friends that I planned to pick it up to watch, not really knowing what it was or who made it — just that I thought it looked interesting. Almost as a consensus (these were, like, four out of five people) they all said “You have to watch Gurren Lagann to really appreciate Kill la kill”. Now, these people knew a good bit of my history with the medium (and I them) to the point where we had a good grasp of who watched or didn’t watch whatever show; and they all knew that I haven’t watched (and had no plans whatsoever to watch) TTGL at the time. So I brushed off their comments and watched the first episode of Kill la Kill anyways. I got what they were getting at right away (in that both shows had that over-the-top feel to it) and I nary touched the series ever since (xD) BUT the sentiment did remain with me.
Why did I have to watch TTGL first to really appreciate Kill la Kill? Why do I have to watch some other show that came before to appreciate something else only vaguely and/or arbitrarily related to it now? Why should the way I view a series be influenced by something I should have seen first?
Of course, the simple answer is I nor anyone else is obligated to watch something because some authority in anime viewing experience told us so. Watch what you like, like what you like, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. I still maintain that one of the most beautiful things about this wonderful medium that we all love is that there’s most certainly a show for every viewer, and every viewer their show — something I’ve only been able to succinctly put into words not too long ago.
That is to say, in as much as we all have our favorites, I do believe that shows simply just cater to a specific crowd; whether because of its genre or its overall style and presentation. There are niches for almost all fandoms (some deeper than others for sure) and in these niches there will always be one or two, maybe three titles, that a lot of anime fans will in agreement call “Gateway Anime” — shows that serve as a point of entry for people looking to get into anime. Often times we hear them as titles that are a “Must Watch” for any fan, which generally tend to be fairly good and popular shows with a lot of acclaim behind it, either by the show’s own merit (amazing story, stellar visuals) or its legacy in relation to the current anime viewing landscape. There’s a plethora of “Top-n Must Watch ____ Anime” lists out there in even the most mundane parts of the Internet so I think I can safely assume you have a good idea of what sort of titles I’m talking about.
I don’t really have much problem with this practice if at all, I mean, the more people who watch anime the better right? (xD) I do acknowledge the fact that there do exist certain shows that would appeal more towards an audience who aren’t really all that privy to the medium or would at least be more palatable to them. These “Must Watch” lists also help newer fans find which show they’d want to watch next once they start. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for people giving out recommendations based on their own personal preferences and their perceptions on what other people might like (heck, I even have a series of posts that is exactly this, lol)
My real issue (if you could even call it that) is when fans start bringing up shows that “you should have already seen” as a current fan or even in cruder terms, a show that “you have to watch first to really appreciate X“ with X being whatever show that came after that bears similarity to the show (or shows) that now define its niche.
In a post I wrote a while back (three years ago to be exact) I talked about how we, as an audience, have become harder to please as of late. Specifically, I bring up how we’ve (in my opinion) become unappreciative of newer titles bearing similarities to older shows (either thematically or stylistically) by never-failing to compare the former to the latter. I used Yuuki Yuuna was Yuusha de Aru to illustrate my point wherein most fans near-immediately painted “YuuYuuYuu” as a “Madoka knock-off” in direct reference of course to the massive fan-favorite Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica; a title that many look to as that which “re-invented” the magical girl genre and as such is still treated to this day as a contemporary milestone for anime.
It wouldn’t take much to see that this culture of comparison has not changed much since then. To this day people still see shows like YuuYuuYuu, as well as the more recent Mahou Shoujo Site for example, as shows that pay homage to Madoka in one way or another — much in the same vein as my earlier anecdote on Kill la Kill with Gurren Lagann. Other examples include; cult-classic Neon Genesis Evangelion‘s influence on the mecha genre for shows like RahXephon and Darling in the FranXX (which ended its run not too long ago); and to a lesser extent the supposed impact that Shoujo Kakumei Utena had in inspiring Star Driver and (the recently concluded) Shoujo Kageki Revue Starlight.
But Leap, why is that such an issue? Well, on the one hand, it’s really not (lol) since one can just disregard these remarks altogether and go about with their anime viewing. However, for the sake of discussion, let’s unravel this little knot of inquiry a bit further. Not to ignite some sort of feud between those that do partake of this practice, but for me to at least expound and better shape my stance on the matter so as to NOT bring about dispute (as the last thing I want to do here is attack someone and their views)
Now, to clarify, my gripe is not about people comparing anime shows to one another nor is it about the culture of comparison we have as a whole. I mean, I do it half the time when I talk about Japanese music for my Monthly Recommendation Round-Up series so it’d be hypocritical on my part to condemn something that I actively do. See, I don’t think that the act of comparing one thing to another is bad. It’s human nature to compare. At a base-evolutionary level it is one of the foundations of our survival as a species (by being able to determine whether or not something is beneficial or dangerous by comparing the experiences we’ve had with different external stimuli). In the context of anime viewing, we generally do comparisons to aid in describing shows, by using more well-known and/or relatable titles as points of reference.
My concern is when comparison is used to censure, dismiss, and discredit both anime and one’s anime viewing experience by virtue of not having seen X — with X again being these landmark shows that have now become nigh synonymous with its genre. “All Magical Girl shows nowadays are trying to be Madoka with their dark themes lol”, “You have to watch Madoka to understand that they’re just copying it”, “This is just a clone of Eva”, “Evangelion did that first”, or as was with me and my friends “You have to watch Gurren Lagann to appreciate [this]”.
If you think about it, comparisons such as these aren’t that much of a far cry from the fandom’s long-standing problem with elitism, if not directly pursuant of it. It is an over-romanticization of the “Must Watch”, from simply being shows that people should see to shows that people must see, for them to have any sort of valid discernment for what’s good or not. It is an imposition of standards on the viewer’s value systems, the basis of which being whether or not we “understood” that certain shows are just trying to do what X did, and that their success is in large part of and can be wholly attributed to X.
I mean, does one not diminish the value of something by saying it is a mere imitation of an original? But what of the old adage, imitation is the highest form of flattery? Well, yeah, it’s pretty cool if a show purposely pay homage to a predecessor… if that was truly the case. More often than not, people make these connections between shows of their own accord, as opposed to something acknowledged by a show’s creators — thereby robbing any sort of creative merit from the anime and the ones responsible for it. In putting X up on a pedestal, any show that bears even the barest amount of similarity to it will always be subject to comparison, despite the show’s creators possibly not even intending for it to be similar to X at all.
I say “possibly” here because it’s hard to say off the cuff whether creators are actually basing their works off of more prominent ones, and is really the only thing that allows for the benefit of the doubt. I actually think it’s fairly arrogant for fans to assume that creators are mimicking what works and what’s popular, but I digress. I’m not dismissing the fact that certain anime have influenced shows that came after it, but I am also of the mind that ideas are bound to be repeated the further along anime continues to be. In as much as the bounds of the human imagination are limitless, so too the potential of the exact same thought occurring for two, three, or a multitude of people.
SO, to conclude, I am not saying that the culture of comparison that we have as fans is inherently bad. It is only when these comparisons serve only to dictate one’s anime viewing experience while also intrinsically devaluing a show is what I find disagreeable.
I’m not gonna end on me telling people what to do as that was not my intention from when I started writing this post nor is it now after the fact and, if that’s what you got out of this then rest assured, I’ll be the first to take a shot at my own writing in failing to get my point across. This isn’t about righting some intangible wrong within anime fandom but rather me just concretizing and putting into words something that may or may not have irked people at one point in time as it did me in my own experience with the medium. Is this over-sensitivity? Extreme hipster-ism? A knee-jerk reaction blown out of proportion? Perhaps. Again, one need only to not think too much about what other people are saying for this to not be a thing (xD). But I also believe that discourse (healthy ones that is) is important to have from time to time.
What are your thoughts on comparisons when talking about anime?
Lemme know in the comments below~
Ah… I’m definitely a little guilty of this, haha.
I was recently talking to someone about Seishun Buta Yarou (in a sort of new anime recommendation conversation), initially about some of my problems with the first episode, but ending by dismissing it as a lesser oregairu.
I’d say this kind of thing is, in a lot of ways, lazy criticism and certainly a romanticization of older works.
I’m glad that you brought this up because it’s definitely more important to talk in depth about what works and what doesn’t work in the context of the show as it is now, rather than giving it a one-line dismissal on the basis of another work!
We all do it /it can’t be helped (xD)
It’s an easy enough trap to fall in to most of the time since, as you said, it’s lazy criticism — which, if spun a bit optimistically, is an easy and concise way to convey descriptions. The tendency for comparison just happens to lean towards negativity in favor of the older/”better” title (though to be fair, even a “lesser oregairu” would sound interesting to me still, Haha!)
Thanks, and likewise, I’m glad you shared your thoughts on the matter Carriage! I was beside myself putting this out since it can seem trivial in some lights (like a ‘you’re just making this a problem by thinking about it’ kind of thing) but I’m happy I got my point across 🙂
ayaw m lng nung review ko ng yuyuyu eh, anu? pakshet! hahahahaha
pero to be fair, i get what you mean. yung di n nabigyan ng chance ung isa kasi kinompare n sa isa pa.
pero a lot of studios also follw trends din kasi. nung pumatok si slice of life, di b madami sumunod kay K-on. di mo dn nmn masisisi ung iba kung ganun cla mag isip. naka ilang isekai + phone anime n b? hahahaha
sa case ng Kill la Kill, i don’t think need mo tlga alamin ang TTGL kasi di nmn cla related. pero parang inside thing lng n sindaya ni director n ung style nya prominent sa kill la kill to help establish trigger. at epektib xa.
as for “must watch”, i don’t reallycare about those. honestly, a list is a half assed opinion piece so gora lng cla. pero in my exp, may truth xa minsan kasi i avoided Eva for all my life at sobrang nag bago buhay ko nung pinanood ko last year. grain of salt xa minsan pero may truth din nmn kht papaano.
sa tlga ng yuyuyu pramis, sinadya nung anime na matulad sa Madoka. d b?
Nah, your review was good. I didn’t agree with some parts, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a review I can appreciate (xD)
There’s that, and also again just impinging on people’s viewing experience. Yung mga tipong, “Dahil lang kasi [dito] kaya patok [‘yan / yung ganyan]”
Yes, it’s very true that studios follow trends, but that’s also besides the point. Some shows can (and will) be similar to other shows that came before it — that much is a fact, whether intentional or not, more so as time goes by. Really it’s when we start attributing works to singular “genre-defining” titles. As with your example, I wouldn’t really credit a “Slice of Life Boom” to K-On! singlehandedly, and if anything I’d count K-On!’s success as just part of an overall “Moe Boom”. Same with Isekai… + Smartphone (lol I don’t think this is as big as you think it is xD) and Isekai in general as being just a general movement at present (I mean, if you think about it even Fushigi Yuugi counts as Isekai, lol, Isekai just wasn’t a “thing” back then)
I’d imagine it was more blatant than being an inside thing if the intended outcome was to showcase the director’s style, but I also can’t say much about this since I didn’t watch both shows 😀
It’s not so much about the shows that are tagged as a “Must Watch”, nor is it the practice of making “Must Watch” lists. Like, I’m glad Eva changed your life (lol), but I wouldn’t really sell it as a “life-changing anime” — if that makes sense. I do agree that Eva is an important cornerstone for anime as a whole though.
And, no, I can’t agree to your last point (xD)
It’s even kind of sad to think about, because so many people who say things like “It’s just like *insert other show’s name*!” are too focused on seeing a new show through the lens of comparison to that other show, and rather than appreciate what this show is doing, they miss a significant portion of it in their dismissal of it.
I think it can be interesting to compare shows to other shows, but mostly as jumping off points for exploring what *this* show does that the previous show didn’t do because it went a different way. But that’s almost never what gatekeepers are doing with it.
I also run into the cousin to this: “You can’t watch this show without watching 40 hours of this other show!” that invariably I’ve already watched the first episode of, and thought was not worth continuing. No, I’m not watching 24 episodes of something I don’t like just to meet your prerequisite for seeing if I like a new show.
It’s the dismissal of other shows that gets to me the most. Like, why even continue to watch anime then if X is the end-all-be-all of that genre? I’m half-joking because that’s a bit extreme but that’s where we are now; that there’s a portion of the fandom that will value provenance, “what started it all” over everything else.
I agree. There is a lot of discussion that can potentially be had about the always-evolving anime viewing landscape over the years but again, the fixation towards the show/s that “started it all” is just that overpowering. One idea, to expound on why I think this is a thing, is that it’s a point of pride for some fans to have seen these pioneering show/s.
Oh, that cousin (xD). Yeah, no, if I have to actively force myself to sit and watch something I may not have even intended to pick up just to conform to some sort of watching order then I’d much rather spend my time watching something that I actually want to see.
Yeah it really comes down to please just let people watch what they want and let them enjoy things.
I always love getting suggestions on what to watch but dang I have a stubborn side when someone tells me what I “should” watch or like more. Sadly that is almost a guarantee that I will not watch it.
I’m pretty much the same really (xD) or at least I’ll subconsciously take my time with it a bit more than I would’ve had they not said I “should” watch it. It’s right up there with “why didn’t you watch this if you like X so much” and “lol why haven’t you watched this yet?”
The quickest way for me not to watch something is saying to appreciate x-thing, you have to watch y-thing. So I completely agree, that comparisons can be very deterring especially when you’ve been invested in a medium for awhile.
That being said, I get it in some cases. Sometimes I watch a series ‘out of order’ and realize if I had reversed the order some elements of the show might have made more sense to me. I don’t even have an example of this recently since I’m so out of the loop with literally everything lately lol.
I do dig your anaylsis on the subject though since it offers a better perspective on how,when, where and why we tend to do these things.
True. I’d just watch X right away in that situation too (xD) The idea that my “appreciation” for X can only be validated if I saw Y first that just doesn’t sit well with me.
I get what you’re saying. Like, not really for shows that have direct prequels and sequels (as those are pretty much a given), but say for shows like Love Live! and it’s successsor Love Live! Sunshine!! as a recent-ish example. You don’t really need to watch the original series first to appreciate Sunshine!!, but doing so would provide you with nuances you wouldn’t catch otherwise. Other examples (albeit a bit more dated) that I could think of would be the Fate Series, or even the two ef shows.
Glad you liked it Rise 🙂 I did try to be as objective as I can while still being firm in my stance, so eyy, I’m happy with the way it turned out (xD) and I’m doubly happy for you sharing your thoughts as well!
Pretty much, I mean if I’m interested in X thing just let me be interested in it?! Maybe I’ll get to y through x? I just hate that elist sort of thinking of ‘appreciate this through this’ it doesn’t have to to be that deep imo.
That’s something that’s easier to follow and what I mean. Like if it isn’t a sequel/prequel sometimes you can get away with watching out of order. Another example is studios that put characters in cameo’s from other series where it’s an easter egg effect.
No problem! I love reading your articles even if I don’t always comment on every single one!
“it doesn’t have to be that deep”
This, really (xD)
Aww :3 I may not talk about anime all that much anymore, but eyy, I try 😀
That’s literally me with most academic works and anime lol.
I mean, same. Working on writing more J-Music stuff lol
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